Floki: "Ragnar Lothbrok challenges you to meet him in single combat."
Earl Haraldson: "Ragnar Lothbrok has a very high opinion of himself."
Floki: "Well, he is descended from Odin."
Ragnarr Loðbrók, to give his name the proper spelling, has become America's favorite badass Viking, thanks to the History Channel's exciting series, "The Vikings." But who was he really? Dr. Elizabeth Ashman Rowe has the answers. Rowe is University Lecturer in Scandinavian History of the Medieval Period at the University of Cambridge in England and author of a scholarly study published in 2012, Vikings in the West: The Legend of Ragnarr Loðbrók and His Sons.
In the preface, she writes: "The Viking king Ragnarr Loðbrók and his sons feature in a variety of medieval stories, all of them highly dramatic." In a French version, he is a noble king in Denmark, father of a fearsome Viking who ravages France. In an English story, he "wickedly inflames" his three sons with envy for the English King Edmund, provoking the Danish invasion of England and Edmund's martyrdom.
Snorri Sturluson, subject of my book Song of the Vikings
, wrote one of the 32 known Icelandic tales about Ragnarr. To Snorri, Ragnarr was famous as the first Norwegian king to keep a court poet, or skald. He was "the conqueror who established the definitive boundaries of the Scandinavian kingdoms," Rowe writes, "and the symbol of the ancient heroism that would be eclipsed by the new heroism of the Icelanders."
Concludes Rowe, "In short, Ragnarr and his sons were ciphers to which almost any characterization could be attached"--as the History Channel has effectively proved.
Was there a real Ragnarr Loðbrók? Rowe says no: "I do not think that there was ever a historical figure known as 'Ragnarr Loðbrók.'" Mostly it's the nickname she's leery of, noting that "the deeds and fate" of an "extraordinarily ferocious" Danish Viking known as Reginheri, who attacked Paris in 845, hanged 111 Christians, and died of illness soon afterwards, "may have given rise to stories about someone named Ragnarr, but there is absolutely no contemporary evidence that he was nicknamed Loðbrók
He didn't get his nickname until after he died--Loðbrók
first appears in two sources, one Icelandic and one from France, in about 1120--and there are several explanations of what it means.
An English writer in about 1150 said it meant "loathesome brook"--just what it sounds like.
But in Old Norse, the nickname would have been understood as "hairy breeches" or "shaggy trousers." The Icelander who wrote Ragnar's Saga
in the 13th century explained that Ragnarr got his nickname from the pants he put on to protect himself when fighting a poison-breathing serpent (or dragon): cowhide pants boiled in pitch and rolled in sand.
Professor Rowe has a better explanation. As I've mentioned, the real Ragnarr Loðbrók, the ferocious Reginheri, died of illness soon after attacking Paris in 845. And not just any illness. Reginheri died of dysentery. As one account in Latin explains, after Ragnarr returned to the Danish court of King Horik he suffered terribly from diarrhea: "diffusa … sunt omnia viscera ejus in terram" (which Rowe helpfully translates: "all his entrails spilled onto the ground.")
Concludes Rowe: "I suggest that it was a similar report--one describing his diarrhea in terms of his feces-stained breeches--that gave rise to the posthumous nickname loðbrók. Ragnar's Saga's
explanation ot the nickname loðbrók
as derived from garments boiled in pitch comes startlingly close to reality, for one can imagine an onlooker at the court of King Horik telling someone later that Reginheri's breeches looked black and sticky, as though they had been boiled in pitch."
So alongside my favorite Viking name, Eystein Foul-Fart, we can now place Ragnar Shitty-Pants. And that's what their friends called them.
Join me again next Wednesday at nancymariebrown.blogspot.com for another adventure in Iceland or the medieval world. And don't forget to enter the raffle for a free, autographed copy of Song of the Vikings. I'll be announcing the winner on May 1. For details, click here.
High Brow stuff Nancy, as always..."Ragnar Shitty Pants"...LMAO!ReplyDelete
I love the series and particularly the character of Ragnar... but now, after reading this, I am going to think of Ragnar everytime I have diarrhea.. Geez, stained drawers?? com'onDelete
If you don't like the series then don't talk bad of it and make it sound terrible , I am sorry I seen this garbage ... It is a tv show we just like the creativeness of it, we know it is dramatized fiction..Delete
he is my grandfather by bloodDelete
New pedigree)hear is some of my lineDelete
Ranald King of Waterford & Dublin male
Sitric (Sigtryggr) Halfdansson King of Dublin male
Ivarr King of Dublin male
Daughter of King Ragnar 'Hairy-Breeks'of Denmark female
Ragner Lodbrock King of Denmark male
I'm just wondering, why both Swedish and Norwegian people in general are trying to claim the origin of the "Viking" time/country ?Delete
The Norse = Denmark, Norway and Sweden and by reading the Sagas and the few documentations from England/Scotland/Ireland Ragnar Lodsbrog was a danish viking.
You can start by reading this info:Delete
Ragnar Was OF Denmark but born in Sweden (as per my genealogy records). Vikings weren't from just one of the Scandinavian countries plus these folks moved around a lot Check out all the "Viking" remnants found in Norway. I was not aware that one country or area claimed to be the only place Vikings came from but from Scandinavia in general. I think the History Channel used Norway as the setting because the fjords are so visual (visualize a ship coming along the coast of Denmark - not so dramatic, eh?) and bring to mind Vikings. That may be the bur in your saddle.Delete
Hi anynoumous May 22, I doubt he is your grandfather, but I do share decendency from him too. I live in Guatemala.Delete
History Channel is as close to fact as humanly possible you must get off on writing crap. Like most people who claim to know history you need to do your research.Delete
Every once in a while I shit my pants. Can I call myself Martin Lothbrok?Delete
HrMattila: I think you got it all wrong.Delete
1. The viking age didnt start with Ragnar Lodbrok, nor was he the first viking to set out to plunder. (If he ever excisted. Most likly Ragnar is a saga figure combining several historical figures into one Ragnar).
2. The first recorded norse hostility in England was in 789AD, when a group of norsmen from Hordaland forced taxes upon local fishermen in Dorset, Wessex. When the king of Wessex sent his "Sheriff" to investigate, he and his men were slain. The next attack, on Lindisfarne, came only 4 years after, and probably also from men of Hordaland.
3. For the most part of the viking age, there were no Scandinavian nations, only various tribes, sharing the same culture, language and religion. So you cant view Scandinavian history in the eyes of modern "nationalism". But I will use the terms Denmark, Norway and Sweden to make it abit more clear.
4. Rearly did the Anglo - Saxons distinguish between Danes and Norwegians, as they all were called Danish. There is two reasons for that. The first being Danes were more present in England. The second being all the Scandinavian vikings would refer to their language as of "Danish tongue" - as Snorre Sturlason points out in his opening lines in Heimskringla.Only in Ireland were such distinguishing made, calling the Norwegian for Finngaill (white foriginers) and the Danes for Dubgaill (Black foriginers). In Germany they all went under Ascomanni (ashmen) and in Spain under Al - Madjus, and in Byzants under Rus/Varjager/Væringer.
5. Further on you say: "documentations from England/Scotland/Ireland Ragnar Lodsbrog was a danish viking"
In English sources he was of Danish origin, in Irish sources however, he is the son of Halfdan, King in Norway. Scottish sources do not mention him as far as i know.
6. If he ever lived as the saga figure we know him as, he would have been born in what is todays Sweden, and ruled over a petty kingdom in Denmark, with maby some land in southern Sweden.
God is alive! We just don't feel the need to go to war, over religion to have peace with God!!!Delete
if you go to www.douglashistory.co.uk type in glencoe as your first name & go to the 17th clan chief it will bring up there names and in the family list click on the last name on the list and then carry on down the list and you will find him he is on the list of Robert The Bruce as the same birth lines tyDelete
this is the clan chief's of GlencoeDelete
Ranald King of Waterford & Dublin
Sitric (Sigtryggr) Halfdansson King of Dublin
Ivarr King of Dublin
Daughter of King Ragnar 'Hairy-Breeks'of Denmark
Ragner Lodbrock King of Denmark
Sigurd 'Ring' King In Sweden
Sigurd 'Fafnisbana' Sigmundsson
& my line is through his 2nd wife princess of Denmark to who became Queen of Denmark so by the annual's of ragnor Lothbrok i am a prince of DenmarkDelete
To know more about Chief Dr Lucky you can visit his website (https://chiefdrluckyherbaltherapy.wordpress.com/)Delete
A friend that suffered from Herpes and was cure with the help of this great herbal doctor Chief Lucky so i decided to contact him for help in getting rid of my families genital herpes virus 1/2 which i did and all i was told to provide was just some useful information and some materials used in preparation of the natural cure and that i did and now i am the happiest person on earth because i am writing this testimony of mine with joy and happiness in my heart to the whole world to know that natural remedy is real because i am a living testimony of Chief Lucky traditional herbal cure and i want you all to contact Chief Lucky via his email: firstname.lastname@example.org or WhatsApp him +2348132777335 am sure he will help you too.
After cleaning my Maine Coon cat, this was what I needed. LOL!ReplyDelete
A guy sure needs to protect himself from nicknames. My father grew up with a kid they called Ole Snot. I have been thinking the History Channel has become more interested in entertainment than history. Whatever pays the bills, I guess.ReplyDelete
while the HC might not care so much about history over a large payday, you have to give them credit for bringing such a vivid time in history to life, and in doing so inspired the curious to learn and the knowledgabe to teachDelete
James I totally agree! I've been researching everything about Vikings since this show... regardless if they get the facts straight, they stir up a need to learn more and that's always a good thingDelete
I am Icelandic and the word brok means pants in Icelandic and the pants was made out of something hairy like wool because lod something hairy Icelandic is the oldest language in Scandinavia and has not changed for over thousand. yearsDelete
Esther Helga Gudmundsdottir
I think there is a bit of folklore in many ancient stories , twisted about by man through time as alwaysDelete
I'm sure. How else could you explain the nonsense of Christianity, and other ridiculous religious mythologies? Religion has been the most prolific serial killer man has ever known. Thank god it is finally dying out.Delete
if only it were true my friend because were ever there's fear there right behind it is religion offering hope and salvation were there is none to be had. even you thank god for its supposed demise. and thats were the problems start god and why do we invent gods because we fear death and so only a god can give us an eternity. so i say to you yes ragner lothbrok did exist more chance of that than the existence of odin or any other god you care to mention we are alone and this scares the shit out of us. unfortunately i have yet to understand why we have the gift of reasoning but im cocksure it didnt come from a god. your very right about it being a killer too its are most vicious of weapons the very reason or excuse if you like to kill and destroy so im sorry if i seem a bit gloomy about this subject non of us are blameless so live your life to the fullest learn and teach because thats the nearest we shall ever be to anything like a god is through wisdom take care and live wellDelete
yours faithfully ragner lothbrok
Icegirl, i'm not sure that Lodbrog or Lodbrok have anything to do with Hairy pants , Lod Means Destiny, "Det er mit lod" = "This is my Destiny", Brog Means a piece of cloth or flag/banner, "Dannebrog/Danebrog"="the Danish Banner", i'm sure that Lodbrog = Destiny Banner, as vikings could "see" the outcome of a battle by looking at how or if the "Raven Banner" was waving in the Wind the right way.. (My opinion)Delete
Pax Romana No the worst serial killers didn't come around till the 20th century and there you can look to/blame communism and before that look at the French revolution, But as far as communism Lenin and Stalin together are at the very least responsible at the lowest estimate 150 million, Mao is estimated to be responsible for 200 million all by himself, and then there's his puppets Kim Il Sung and his son,The Vietnamese leaders,Cambodian leader Pol Pot and on and on no Hitler and communism make all the religous killings look puny not that they should be dismissed wrong is wrong, But if you you want the real villain? Look to to man/woman kind it's only because of our aspiration's to do better than our basest desires and instincts that we really truly have any chance of being/becoming better and part of that derives from religion ! =^..^=Delete
So much diverse information about Ragnar Lothbrok. Could you shed some light on his wife (or any other women in his life)? There's sparse information...or maybe I haven't dug enough for that. BTW, I have your book The Far Traveler. The Abacus and the Cross caught my eye, so I'm adding to my "to be read" pile. Thanks for the interesting read today.
He had three wives. Lagertha and Aslaug (who, of course are seen in the show), and Thora. Lagertha, the first wife, was every bit the badass she is in the show. Next was Thora. Legend says her father placed a serpent around her bower and promised her to whomever could kill the serpent. This is the poison breathing serpent mentioned in the article. Ragnar killed the serpent and they were married. They had 2 sons, both of whom died in battle, and Thora died of an illness. Finally, Aslaug. His final wife and bearer of his most famous sons, including Ivar the Boneless and Sigurd Snake-eye. When Ragnar took his final voyage to England, Aslaug warned him not to go, but his pride convinced him to go. When Ragnar fell, Aslaug and their sons sailed to England and sought revenge against King Aella. That's what I've found in my research. I hope it was helpful.Delete
Very helpful, thanks. :)Delete
Actually, Thora Hart-of-the-Town was his first wife. They had 2 sons, Eirik and Agnar. After Thora died, he married Aslaug. They had 4 sons, Ivar the Boneless was the oldest, then Björn Ironside, then Hvitserk, then Sigurd Snake in the Eye.Delete
Ragnar was already king before he married Thora. His father was King Ring, of Sweden and Denmark.
It's not hard for a Northman to translate Old-Norse into English, much harder for a Brit though. They have trouble to tell what really happened, and what they don't know or understand, they just make up.
ha! Harmen, you are my hero. Well said.Delete
She sounds like a hater!!!ReplyDelete
Aw awesome blog ! Awesome show !!! And it couldn't be more awesome I'd suspect to anyone than myself due to my finding out my lineage late last summer. I am descended from I would guess a close companion to Rollo as stated in a book published 100 years ago regarding my surname and its ancestors. I will share it and paste it here :**Sir Rolf (Radulphus) de la Pomeroy (Pommeraye) , was descended from Rolf the Norseman , who , under Rollo , landed on the shore of Neustra France , with Rolf Ganger (Rolf the walker) a prince of Norway, in the 9th centrury for the conquest of that province.ReplyDelete
Yes, and I am descended from Julius Ceasar and Cleopatra. Nice try.Delete
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It's the most studied genealogical testing done and this information remains after a hundred years after its first publication as well as attempts by others to discredit it. Do some research before speaking next time. This is not a name to discredit. It's descendants have done well and your research will shock and amaze the many who read it and their many many great discoveries , victories and even the history of the USA where it's at the forefront. I bear this name and all who do share my ancestry and history. Science proves this. As far as your ancestry ...........Delete
You deserved more respect than "Anonymous" gave you. What an unfortunate post. Does he think famous people leave no lineage--no legacy? If he traced his own back far enough he'd likely find someone at least semi-famous (or infamous) too. It's not all that unusual given it's a simple biological fact of evolution that the strong procreate and survive. Were people any stronger or more intelligent in their time than the Vikings. I would answer that with a resounding NO and I must admit I find the author's rather biased fantasy that the Icelanders of all people eclipsed them at anything more than a bit self serving if not downright laughable.Delete
Our ancestors were so much more than the rapists and pillagers history (and History) still portray them to have been. They were master ship builders and navigators hundreds of years ahead of their time, and I am among those who STRONGLY believe they were in the Great Lakes region of the U.S. harvesting copper hundreds of years before Columbus set sail seeking new trade routes for silks and spices.
no belief required, vikings lived in canada, we found their homes, not camps, HOMES. and copper axe heads are found here all the time ( i live in the great lakes area) and we know the primitive aboriginals didnt play with metals up here like they did in the central and south americas. the canadian aboriginals were still using rocks and sticks when the rest of europe got their lazy butts over here. interestingly the vikings left because the aboriginals chased them off.Delete
Actually, all of you need to brush up on your genetics. It's been proven that all Caucasians, Native Americans, and Asians, are all the children of the third group to come out of East Africa. They had stayed in Central Asia area for a thousand years before getting curious again and heading out. Only one group ever went west, and they became the Caucasians. They were stubborn and tired of always heading east so they struck out on their own, strait into an ice age. It made them a bit brutal. However, they were still relatives of the first and second groups to emerge out of East Africa. The first, and most ambitious, made it all the way to Australia (via the southern coastline of Asia). The Second group were not so ambitious and only made it as far as...hmmm...Palastine, Israel, The Middle East, whatever you feel is politically correct for yourself. My point is, all three of these groups came from one very incredible people known as the Bushmen tribes. They are not black, or white, or brown, they are actually a bit grey clay colored. You can see every ethnicity in their features. We all come from one "Greatest Grandfather". So, if you take that, (which traces the Y chromosome, the only one to show markers) and add it to an other scientific fact; which is that we are all made up of atoms that do nothing without code (genetic code) and these atoms are the same atoms that have been around since...well atoms, and that break down in death and go off to become other things and other people...I think you're starting to get the picture. We are all one. Sorry folks, but Dr. Bronner, and a quite a few people that have experimented with psychedelics; have it correct. Science proves it, and continues to prove it further with every new discovery. So rejoice in your ancestry, but remember this, we are all literally a family.Delete
My brother and I have just received our National Geographic Genome project 2.0 DNA results related to migration out of Africa. While expensive, the data has done wonders for students of many diciplines. To get the fullest genetics on your family's history, you must have both male and female samples. Facinating to see the differences. This data also sheds light on the spread of language and the web of relationships of the worlds languages.Delete
As to Ragnor, I love it!! I'm an old English history student, and had researched by traveling 3 times to UK as well as poking around in the "stacks" pre-web info. The Vikings on HC inspired me to go at it again. I think the writers have done a marvelous job of blending folk lore and "history" of the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle to produce great fun. They make no pretense of producing a documentary. There is so much daily life detail in every episode that I'm hooked. My most recent trip was a month on the Fall of 2013, in the South of England slogging around newly excavated sites. And of course walking the ancient trackway, with frequent stops a pubs in small villages.
Anyone know what the Roman ruin shown in the latest episode of Vikings may be based upon? I'm assuming it would be near Winchester, as that was the Wessex capitol. I've searched but can't find anything that would fit. But....There probably were a few "libraries" surviving into Ecbert's (Egbert) time. There certainly were many villas with baths, although in ruin. Early Anglo-Saxon invaders mostly distroyed or ignored the Roman buildings. They also killed most of the Romano-British (Celtic) people left after the Legions departed. So, it is that most of the Saxons in the Britain of Ragnar's time truly did not know of the Roman history.
Jeigh is an idiot, lol. according to him, women don't have genes.Delete
sequences of mitochondrial, Y-chromosome, and autosomal DNA are all used to determine genetic history.
The genetic origins of modern humans is still a contested and hot topic, so no, know one knows exactly where white people came from.
No one who understands basic genetics uses the term Caucasian. The only people are Caucasian are the residents of the Caucus Mountain region.
iPomeroy, youe should know that Rolf Ganger was also Robert, first Earl of Normandy and great great grandfather of William Duke of Normandy ancestor of all the kings and queens of England down to Elizabeth II and her family. He is my ancestor through Henry III, Edward I and Edward III through my Jamestown ancestor William Farrar, founder of Henrico, Virginia.Delete
We must be related then! :-) You named all my DIRECT ancestors.Delete
you silly american's so desperate to prove that your descended from some one special thing is your not most of you most of you were the poor and feckless migrants of europe packed off to were you are now well what ever gets you through it i supposeDelete
yours faithfully mr m dacre
Anonymous. too bad for you you hateful man. As I write this, I have indisputable proof that I descend from the brother of Hrollo the walker.Delete
All evidence is in the way of written wills. Just to make another point,I can prove that I am the 22 cousin to HRH Elizabeth II. So piss off commoner.
Does it really matter what someone else thinks? Big deal if he doesnt believe you.. if what yiu say us true then it shouldbt bother you if he thinks its not. I personally dont care who my ancestors were. It doesnt change who I am. If i fiubd out HItler was my great grandfather I would still be who I was tge day before I found that out lol.Delete
Lmao, you call someoneva commoner, i hate to burst your bubble but even if you truly are descended from some guy who lived thousands of years ago it doesnt make you better than anyobe else. Nor does it make you noble, if anything it just proves you probably have some incest in your blood due to the fact that nobles liked to "keep it in the family" so they wouldnt taint their precious blood line. Lol.Delete
Well said Michelle.Delete
Awesome post I enjoyed reading it. Nicely explained.ReplyDelete
University of England
I believe a man named Ragnar Lothbrok existed. He is attested in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle. I think his legend has been massively inflated however.ReplyDelete
Well spoken...as from an English prude who had lineage slaughtered from a greater tribe.ReplyDelete
I have 117 pages of my Icelandic family history and on branch 68 ( green 68, 31) is Ragnar "Lodbrok" Sigurdsson son of Sigurd "hringur" Randversson.ReplyDelete
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as a Icelander I am very proud of my history,read some of my post about RagnarDelete
Ragnar's true last name was SigurdssonReplyDelete
I do believe there was a real person by that name and he didn't die from dysentery - he was thrown into a snake pit by King Aella.ReplyDelete
Floki didn't say that, the earl did. Also his death is better traced to 865 because his sons went to war to avenge his death in 865, why would they wait 25 years if he died in the snake pit in 840?ReplyDelete
because his sons were small children at the time. so, 16-20 years there. add some time to hone their skills, build ships, gather warriors... yeah, 25 years sounds about rightDelete
After the season finale, I'd been calling him "Ragnar Shitty-Pants" on my own. This just confirms it!ReplyDelete
As a boy whose nickname was "Stinky" I can perfectly relate to Ragnar's "poopy pants". It does hurt and I can see why he was so mean.ReplyDelete
So an englander claims Ragnar is an entirely fictitious person eh? Yawn - the english have been seeking to denigrate Ragnar's achievements including their vicious & inhumane treatment of him, for more than a thousand years.ReplyDelete
This is despite considerable historical evidence from a diverse range of sources all of which supports the existence of a King Ragnar.
The vehemence with which successive englander 'experts' on the history of a land far removed from their own, try to deny Lothbrok says much more about the shame & humiliation this great man's existence causes englanders, than it tells us of Lothbrok.
Why listen to whatsome chinless englander writing in the 20th century asserts, when 'The AngloSaxon Chronicle' which was written contemporaneously with Lothbrok's life (mid 9th century) documents the existence of King Ragnar Lothbrok?
Thank you for settling the matter with fact rather than emotion. Even VIDEO GAMES (Skyrim) get in on the "let's all hate Ragnar" mobile. One of four or so songs sung in taverns in the very complex game is a completely fictitious account of his life and death, allegedly at the hands, or axe, of his angry wife. It's beyond belief, quite literally, how much people are still threatened and humiliated by a man long dead. I just love him all the more for it being no great fan of the victims of one of his more famous early attacks, and I don't mean the French!Delete
Notnewz, thank you for your sensible comments among all the flotsam I found here. I've been researching my genealogy for nearly 40 years, my grandmother started the search decades before that. I'm lucky having Icelandic roots that are so intensely researched. Ragnar is my 35th great grandfather through his son Björn. The men are easier to follow through the various records (except when their nickname changes or they are named Jon Jonsson) but the woman are tough to find sometimes and even tougher still to figure out which child is from which "wife" since it's not uncommon to find more than one existing at the same time. I'm enjoying the series and it's attempt at accuracy. It's better then others have done before, obvious by this discussion.Delete
be mindful of generalising your projections of 'englander' opinions. Evidence is evidence and i'm sure no genuine historian would deny the existence of anyone, if there was sufficient proof.
Whether a document was written contemporaneously with the events it claims to document is irrelevant - the period during which a document was produced is no testament to its accuracy.
a whole religion, christianity is based only on records from people 100 years after the fairy tale man was supposed to have lived. contemporaries NEVER mention this jesus character. many historians read as fools, will say this jesus character was real because of some items and some writings, however the same loose evidence on another person and they must be a myth? you are right, its not when the documents are written that make them accurate, for example egyptologists still insist the sphinx was made by egyptians even though it has rain water damage which couldnt have been done unless egyptians were around about 4000 years before "historians" say. the vistors re-write history and later we dig it up and find the truth. the truth is ragnar is much like arthur, exaggerated legends of a real man.Delete
The books of the Bible are written by exactly who they say they are. The evidence that they are not: no copies older than a couple hundred years later are known to exist. Unfortunately, absence of proof is not proof of absence. The key clue that they were all written before 70AD is the lack of mention of that major fulfillment of prophecy, the destruction of Jerusalem. The Bible makes a big deal out of the demand for 100% accuracy in prophecy, and such a fulfillment would have been clearly noted.Delete
Unfortunately, Northmen were far less fastidious about in their record keeping, so while I believe Ragnar, like Arthur, was a historical figure, he also like Arthur is victim of much enlargement and confusion of his exploits.
Egyptian pharaohs are notoriously self-serving in having their life recorded. For example, a careful reading of Ramses II's great 'victory' at Kadesh will reveal that his only great triumph is in managing to survive a crushing ambush and fight long enough for re-enforcements to arrive and rescue him.
Sorry, but you are very wrong. The Roman Jewish war was in 65 A.D. and many called that destruction. Luke emphasizes it clearly and before 70 A.D. Predicting the destruction of Jerusalem is like predicting the seasons...the funny thing is Jerusalem is still around, by the very definition, then it has not been destroyed. Every heard of the King James Bible. Do you have any idea how many books have been shed from the Bible? Or how about the Book of Mormon. There's several million Mormons to argue that with you. False histories than man molds to fit his needs, just as he does his God's. Man's greatest need....to flee responsibility. For the good and the bad. Just blame it all on God...The divine one, that threw a fit and killed off his creation (man, except Noah of course) in a temper tantrum. So which is it, divine or evolving? Sure seems like God is evolving as man does....hmmmm.....Delete
Well, the "generalized Englanders" have no moreDelete
merit than the sagas...if that's your argument.
here here. just look at the bible's claimsReplyDelete
Sorry but old Norse lodbrok does literally translates to hairy breaks.ReplyDelete
And there is plenty of evidence that he did in fact live. There may be dispute about the actual time heibed but he did marry a queen of Sweden, aslog, and have many sons including Bjorn Ironside and Ivar the Boneless.
And aa for Lagertha, she too was a real and very famous shield maiden whom despite his infedelity he always loved Lagertha and makes her an jarl in her own right.
I've been reading about vikings and the legend of ragnarr lodbrok for many years before this show and it is for the most part fairly accurate. Although he never had a brother named Rollo.
I only have to look at the British butchery and suppression of evidence in Africa to have reason to question the veracity of the English version of "history". Not that I can place much more faith in any other version, as almost all accounts suffer the burden of self service in chronicling the events of the past.ReplyDelete
seems to me Swidish king 'Ragnar Sigurdsson Lodbrok' who supposedly reigned around 770 - 785 commes pretty close...ReplyDelete
This is one of the most informative sites Ive seen on this subject. I myself have connection to the Vikings heritage and have always been interested in the legend and lore. Of course like many others this particular series dragged me in quickly and left me wanting to know more. Anyone whom says that History is more interested in entertainment than historical accuracy is reaching far to belittle what they've done here. Not only does this bring such an interesting and path paving culture to mainstream. It also is very "historically accurate" in the sense that these are legends and lore from this cultures history. So in turn making them historically accurate. Yes of course we know most of the epic saga History Channel is creating is for entertainment purposes, but they are pulling from real lore and legend. Love the show, love the culture and lore.ReplyDelete
if you read some of my today's post you will what I know about RagnarDelete
and his last name is translated in Icelandic wool pants
Ragnar was born in Sweden and was thei king of Sweden and Norway he died in 845 in snake pit EnglandReplyDelete
correction Ragnar was also king of Denmark not norwayReplyDelete
I do believe Ragnar was real my viking forefathers were very literature oriented they wrote our history and the saga are for real I can read them and have seen the books that are in Iceland ,that's pretty coolReplyDelete
I first watched Vikings solely because there was nothing else on TV. Thought it would be a snooze -- how wrong! Was totally captured by the show & now can hardly wait for each new episode. Wondered if the main characters were based on real life. Seems they are which makes the program even better. Thanks for this blog.ReplyDelete
I am descendant of Ragnar Lothebrok. He is real, not of some Frenchman's imagination. Do your research in the real world.ReplyDelete
Another Descendant of Ragnar, here. I guess we are just make believe to, huh? What a terrible blog. I would get upset, but it's not really worth my time...ReplyDelete
Yeah I noticed that quite a few people seem to be related to ragnar. I have Swedish in me so maybe I am his great great great something or other lol.Delete
He was my great.........5...6..7 grand father, invaded southamerica too and raped a lot of Indians....Delete
The person who wrote this blog can't even get the lines from the show and who said them correct... what makes anyone think they can get anything about Ragnar correct?ReplyDelete
I am a direct descendant of Odin, Ragnar is my first cousin 37th removed.ReplyDelete
I could well be a descendent, too...if he truly had a son named "Halfdan" which, in the English might translate into "halfdane" or "Alden" as my lineage traces directly to Pilgrims John Alden and Priscilla Mullins of the Mayflower's voyage and landing at Plymouth Rock. Also, my maiden-name is Norwegian for "haystack." This lineage comes from both sides of my family, the Norwegian from my father's, but both came through Norsemen settled in England,ReplyDelete
I am also an Alden descendant.....there are about 23 million mayflower descendants in the usa....if Ragnar existed...probably a quarter of northern Europe is descended. If you are an Alden descedant u r related to both Adams presidents, longfellow, dick and jerry van dyke, marilyn monroe, fdr, laura ingalls wilder, dan quayle, sarah palin.....lol...not kidding do the research;)).Delete
I hope that Travis stays on after his Ragnar snake pit execution. Perhaps he can morph into Oden fur future generations.ReplyDelete
All these comments make me a happy little piggy. :-)ReplyDelete
As a Norwegian i both hate and love the Vikings series, hate it for historical inaccuracy and stupidity, and love it, because, well it's about vikings.
The legend of Ragnar and his sons is of course not true. Just like fairy tales are told to children to help them understand the world, the vikings had the sagas to help them understand their world. They often contain descriptions of military tactics used, e.g. Ragnar pants might useful against fire during siege or maybe it's just hardened leather. Bjorn Ironside's tactical subterfuge where he takes Luna by the trickery of deathbed conversion is for example also used by Harald Hardrada and also a Norman king in Sicily.
Then it's Ivar the Boneless as suffering from bonebrittle disease has been popularized by a man who himself suffer from the same disease, though the hypothesis is interesting, the arguments like "carried on a shield" and bein(bone)lausi(less) are just poor speculation. I am Norwegian myself and have been carried by my peers after scoring a goal or some other victory for the team. "Old Norse beinn could mean bone or legs, but also straight, right, favourable, advantageous, convenient, friendly, fair, keen. Maybe he was not straight, like Earl Erling Skakke of Lade, who suffered a wound to the neck and after that had trouble walking straight, thus the name "Skakke" which means tilted or slanted, word commonly used to describe the condition of walls or furniture. or maybe he just lost his leg or legs in battle. but since earl Erling the Tilted or Slanted is a hsitorical figure and Ivar is not, it probably means something about his personality or his prowess in battle, e.g. he cruel and cold (Norwegian "inni beinmargen" it hurts so much it that reaches all the way into the bone) or anything really.. deceitful like a snake, exceptional skilled fighter, but in any case if it was due to some disease the legend would include that fact, which they doesn't.
My personal favorite legendary Norse king is Olaf Geirstadalv. According to Snorri Sturlason, the locals made offerings on the mound of Olaf Geirstadalv, believing he was some kind of fairy or elf, Geirstad(place)alv(elf). Snorri had no clue about where the legendary kings was buried. The later norwegian kings Olaf Trygvasson and Olaf Heilage came from nothing and arrived in Norway taking the kingdom by force. Then there is the obvious King Sverre and his birchlegs? well, he dreamt he was an eagle after his mother told him he was a bastard of some previous king. Snorri was hired by King Magnus of House Sverre to write their saga, in order to strengthen their claims. Snorri based his writings on stories he collected and old poems, and he even admit he has a hard time cheking the accuracy of these accounts. then if you add the various copyist taking artistic freedoms in their work and adding a word here and there, for political or religious reasons, e.g. whjo know if some bishop or king choose to make some amendments to their important stones for example you can't tell if the second or the last sentence was added later, "The Harald who won the whole of Denmark and Norway and turned the Danes to Christianity."
By Odin that was a long post, phew... I must be really caught up with my viking heritage... 8]
Anonymous the Norwegian
note on nicknames: sometimes norse nicknames means the opposite, and is given as jokeDelete
note on Ivar: I saw the documentary about Ivar having bone brittle disease and arguments against it was that viking would not accept a handicapped man as their leader. That historian can not know much about the importance of the bloodline and the need to be descendants of Odin. Norse kings often delegated power to a second in command, so they could focus on the important king matters like drinking ale and breeding new little princes.
Anonymous the Norwegian
on linage: it is very likely that if you claim to be a descendant of some high linage, your ancestors may have had good reasons to fake their that claim. I myself can trace my linage back to the ancient norse kings (which make me a descenadant of the Gods themselves,, and if you first hook up on some noble line you can also trace that back to Charlemagne. Considering anything before 15th-16th century is very difficult to verify, your heritage can be only be proven by DNA tests. Recent Dna tests has led to some disappointments among currently living pretenders to some famous lines, proving that the scandalous affair with some low ranked french courtier from the 17th century actually did happenDelete
and thus my endless babble came to an end, until next time.
I hope future viking series has less talking and more raiding :D
Anonymous the Talkative but actually reclusive and shy Norwegian
Vikings came to Southamerica too by way of Magellans strait, runic writings on small boulders alog the coast of Tierra del Fuego have been found.Delete
My hunch? Ragnar Lothbrok is like Keyser Soze. Real men claimed to be descendants to evoke fear.ReplyDelete
is Vikings aired in a Nordic language anywhere? if so is there a link someone can post. I'd like to hear it in a "native" language just for kicks.ReplyDelete
There are a number of reasons for how he could have likely gained such a name, one story suggests it was from wading into water in fur and the descriptions of his fur clothes frozen.ReplyDelete
You also excluded the most likely account of 'his' (or at least one of the individuals which make up the one legend) death which was by the hands of King Ælla of Northumbria, by being thrown into a pit of snakes. His sons are said to have then led the Great Heathen Army across saxon England. Thats the most common, not because of how close a name is, but because of the actions of his sons post his death their names before 'nickname' being Ragnarsson. It is far more likely when an account includes both an account of someones death and the resulting known invasion by those which hold his name in one instance, which also crosses a known historical event recorded in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle.
There are many examples of these stories of why names or gained or how certain figures died but why would you opt to choose the most 'comical' or cynical explanation over all other with arguably more validity? It is not likely that one man with the exact name was responsible for all the actions and deeds of the myth and legend often attributed to one. This is obvious. It seems to me you have chosen that particular story and account purely because it makes for a more comic blog that will entertain as apposed to anything else.
I highly recommend Elizabeth Rowe's book!! Great read so far!!ReplyDelete
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Norse legends aside, my father did my genealogy 50+ years ago and found records in Norway that connect me (through my mother's father) to the early Kings of Norway and on to Ragnar "Lodbrok" Sigurdsson of Sweden. Whether the Norse legends influenced the actual records or not is anybodies guess, but I choose to give them the benefit of the doubt. Someone's comment that it seems that Ragnar had way to many descendants on this blog I would ask two questions. First. who is likely to even read this blog - folks interested in vikings and more than likely have some Scandinavian ancestors and second, how many descendants is Ragnar likely to have - a huge number unfathomable to me. I don't doubt that there are those who have commented here that are just making a wild claim but there are also those who have the research to prove their claim.ReplyDelete
My dog just farted.ReplyDelete
I just spent 4 days taking care of my granddog - a Boston Terrier. Talk about flatulence!Delete
I'm related through his son, Sigurd II Snake in the Eye.ReplyDelete
I am related through a daughter by the name of Alaf Ragnarsdottir. Stuff back this far can be a bit suspicious to say the least but I like to consider it - could be.Delete
I'm also related to Sigurd! Hello! XDelete
Ragnar "Lodbrok" Sigurdsson was my 32nd great grandfather. I'm Norwegian and think it's so stupid to belive lodbrok has anything to do with shitty pants. In norwegian you can still understand the old words "loddne broker" an it means a bit hairy thick trousers made of wool. You kan make a thick hairy fabric by washing wool hard together and it's one of the oldest ways to make fabric.ReplyDelete
Yup, I have felted knit wool many times and it becomes "hairy" particularly if the wool is raw and untreated. The more you wear or use the garment the hairier it gets. You are spot on in my estimation Ragnarsson ( he was born in what is now Sweden but I bet the borders were a bit wonky at that time.)ReplyDelete
I am a Norwegian, and I am also a descendant of Ragnar (through marriage to Aslaug). My family tree has been researched far back to 0065 BC. It's quite ridiculous to hypothesize that his nickname came from him having dysentery. Furthermore, for the non Norwegians; Norway documents and has always documented names and lineage of family for church and or taxation reasons (even prior to christianization), it's a very well documented genealogy.ReplyDelete
Hi, would you be able to point me in the direction where I could find these types of records online please? I'm researching my family tree and have found a link to Ragnar through the same line has you have mentioned and I'm looking to validate this information. Any help you could provide would be really helpful. Thanks Laura :-)Delete
And yes, those that do claim to be descendants can actually claim it through the documentation that can be crossed reference. Even I was skeptical at first upon discovery of having Ragnar Lodbrok as a 33rd grandfather (tipp oldeforeldre), but we find it documented in other genealogy.ReplyDelete
I'm researching my family tree and discovered that Ragnar is my 43rd Great Grandfather through the marriage of Aslög Kraaka Sigurdsdattir. In your comment you mentioned you have found documentation. Would you be able to point me in the right direction of this information please? Any information I can find to validate my findings would be great.Delete
Sweden, Norway and Denmark all produced vikings and intermarried - particularly royalty. Although Radnar Lodbrock was born in what is now Sweden, he became a king in Denmark. Looking through our perspective, it seems they were one thing or the other. I am reading a book written by a Scotsman back in the 1700's about the Early Kings of Norway. He explains that there were many "kings" and kingdoms but he follows the most notable which were the ones that the Icelanders wrote about (they were particularly good recordkeepers). He also uses other sources to come up with the possible truth. It is interesting that the History Channel series about Ragnar, is set in Norway - the only Scandinavian area that has fjords although in records Ragnar ruled in Denmark. When we think of Vikings - we think of them sailing into fjords probably because so many good artifacts have been uncovered in Norway.ReplyDelete
The series HC is depicting is filmed in Ireland and Canada, with background scenes of Scandinavian landscapes. Why not film it there where the legend originates is very unclear.Delete
It is obvious why. Money. With all the digital capabilities these days, film it where it is financially feasible and add the background later.Delete
“Vikings” has been criticized by Norwegian historians due to some historical inaccuracies – among others that the Vikings are portrayed as “grey highway robbers” when in fact they liked to wear expensive, bright colored clothes and beautiful jewelry.Delete
Good thing the show isn't called "A Documentary of the Vikings" then.Delete
Boy your a smug little $5^&8@# . He is proven to be the 6th great grandfather to William I Conqueror of England.ReplyDelete
Looking forward towards s3. It's great entertainment, but as a Swede living on the shore of Kattegat sea there is a lot of not so accurate (but still very cool) scenery, clothes, names and styles.ReplyDelete
The part of the Scandinavia that the Vikings originate from is actually fairly similar to the British isles. Only far off in Norwegian fjords there are scences as depicted in the show. Those areas were not really in the center of "vikingness". Instead todays Denmark, the Oslo fjord area, Swedish west coast (back then Danish, later in medival times the north part Norwegian and in the 1600's all Swedish) as well as along the Baltic Sea, Gotland island and around lake Mälaren. All somewat fair and fertile lands. The Hedeby scenes (actually about 1,5 hours drive from Hamburg) is depicted as being in a mountain range. Its really superflat. Jarl Borgs Götaland HQ seemed to be placed on a tundra. It's really farmland with lush oaks growing. Uppsala is the same, flat farmland.
The Vikings for sure knew about England. There were even kingdoms hundreds of years earlier claiming to encompass parts of Scandinavia and England. Actually the Anglo-Saxons were kinsmen of the Vikings. They originated from todays Denmark and northern Germany. The abandond the Asa faith (Weden = Odin) a couple of hundred years earlier, thereby becoming lawful prey from a Viking perspective. Old English and Old Norse was actually just dialects of the same language. When the actors simulate some Old English, I can understand most of it as a Swede today. So the part of the plot where the Vikings did not understand the language was a bit painful. However cool entertainment, even though they dress as Conan. The Northumbrians dress more accurately as Vikings even though the are not intended to.
Enjoyed season 3 episde 1, still terrible with alpine mountains around Hedeby (North German flatlands today) and Athelstan as an interpreter between Old English and Old Norse (dialects of the very same germanic language, still interlinguable at that time), which is evident when me as a Swede understands both sentences in actual Old Norse and Old English when Lagherta and the Wessex king speaks to each other with Athelstan as an interpretor (easy job). I love the series, but why can't Michael Hirst just grasp that Anglo-Saxons are from todays Denmark and northern Germany just as the Vikings invaded. Actually the did invade in the same way, brofht the same language, same gods, but a couple of hundred years earlierReplyDelete
Remember, all of those claiming descent from antiquity, scientists have just explained that 16,000,000 men alive today (mainly in China and Mongolia) are descendants of Genghis Khan.ReplyDelete
So many people on this site probably are descendants; powerful folk get around a lot.
Perhaps "Hairy Breeches" is a sly comment on what is in the breeches. Like today we say, "He has brass ones,"ReplyDelete
Arguing over who owns the Viking is like arguing over who owns the blacksmith. A Viking was an act and not a race as the Scandinavians went Viking, which means to go on a raid. Otherwise they were simple farmersReplyDelete
I find all this great fun. He's my 31ggparent. and I get to him 2 different ways. I'm a direct line to WTC also. DNA says I'm no. European including Scandanivia and Part of Russia and Lithuania. All my research says the DNA is correct. I'm still me, still a Rn, still a mom, still a wife, and still glad to maybe have viking blood. I'm a sailor, a skiier and love the snow. Maybe it's in my blood?????????Delete
I wish I had the time to sit in front of a computer all day researching my ancestors and bickering over who is related to who. No one cares. People lets focus on the future instead of the past. "I'm Ragnar's descendant. No I am. Well Rollo was my cousin. No he's not". If, in fact, you are related to some Viking King, I'm sure he would be proud of how his descendants are sitting in front of a computer eating Cheetos trying to pronounce some Viking name then arguing with others over it. I guess if this makes you feel worthy and gets you through the day then so be it. I know it is hard for all of you but try and focus all your efforts on doing something productive like getting a job and move out of your parent's basement. And, for god's sake, take off that ridiculous helmet with the horns. As like a lot of history, if you want it to be true all you have to do is believe it yourself.ReplyDelete
I don't have time to sit in front of my computer either. My relatives did the research and I am related to the Viking Hastein (Hastings) who apparently was a real badass.Delete
Lived in Iceland for over a year, in the 1960's. Truly a land of Fire and Ice. The country of Iceland had a law against adding any new words to their vocabulary. I was told, if a longship were to sail into a fiord, the Icelanders could have conversed with the crew freely. The men and women were very large, and it was not a "stretch" to envision them as Viking Warriors!ReplyDelete
Thorfinn Rollo is my claim a genealogy trace puts him in my bloodline William the conquer who knocked off king Harold with a few sniper's head shot then we organized em with the Doomsday book all catalog ed . I have the documentation authenticReplyDelete
I've also been researching my genealogy and found out that my ancestors are Ragnor and his son Sigurd. Very interesting and fascinating. Not seen the series yet, but feel very proud that my ancestors were such characters. XReplyDelete
And for the comments on people sitting in front of the computer and claiming lineage, it's about being proud of your ancestors so you can educate the future generations. I have a full time job, but enjoy learning when I'm not working, and what better to learn about than my own bloodline. XReplyDelete
Why do people always have doubt and disbelief? Some seem so scared to accept the truth. I am a descendant of Ragnar through his son Bjorn Ironside. Also I am a descendant of William Wallace. Each as real as the other.ReplyDelete
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Ragnar Lothbrok may not be an historical character, but according to the Ausvoll/Kluge Redbook, I am the 33rd great-grandson of Sigurd Snake-In-The Eye Ragnarsson - supposed son of Ragnar Lothbrok. This information is also available through Ancestry.com - if that means anything.ReplyDelete
Ragnar Lothbrok may not be an historical character, but according to the Ausvoll/Kluge Redbook, I am the 33rd great-grandson of Sigurd Snake-In-The Eye Ragnarsson - supposed son of Ragnar Lothbrok. This information is also available through Ancestry.com - if that means anything.ReplyDelete
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People can scoff all they like I can only answer with actual FACT 'Thorfinn Rollo' was an actual figure in French history!ReplyDelete
Yup- put "Normandy" on the map, and Hurst was clever to add him as Ragnar's brother...so that his story can be incorporated...and with his and Ragnar's lineage so little understood, it was the perfect way to boost the DRAMA...of a...DRAMA...while getting people to learn more independently on their own. Does that with all these historical "tie-in's," that keep the plot entertaining, while still introducing more historically significant characters of mysterious backgrounds.Delete
Thanks for the information. Our family is working on our geneology and discovered that King Ragnar would be my 41st great grandfather. We are related through his son 'snake in the eye', and then his daughter Thora, all the way through to Mary Boleyn and her illegitimate children with King Henry VIII. According to our research, Ragnar would have been Queen Elizabeth 1st's 23rd (or there abouts) great Grandfather, and Anne Boleyn's 22nd great grandfather (as she was Queen Elizabeth's mother). The peerage records are truly remarkable.ReplyDelete
Like many - I'm also a supposed decendant of Ragnar by way of his daughter Ragnhild. Does anyone have an opinion based on anything documented that claims which wife of Ragnar's bore his daughter Ragnhild? Trying to line up the date of her birth to when he would have been with a specific wife - but the dates are difficult to nail down. Just curious if anyone could point me in the right direction.ReplyDelete
Even if Ragnar didnt exsis - damn fun to think he might have and learn about "him".
I am also related to this family through the Norwegian Earls of Orkney...Gor...Halfdan the old...Sigurd the Stout...the Hendersons of the Kingdom of Fife...Judge Richard Lawson Henderson - President of the Transylvania Land Company. I love this show and my Viking roots. I was thinking that Ragnar was going to Okenslaugen? Floki. If you have read the sagas you know what this is. The dream like scene where Ragnar cuts the Blood Eagle on his enemies back was awesome!ReplyDelete
There is a possibility that I am also somehow related. My ancestor was Hastein. Family name became Hastings.When you go back that far, sometimes the information is a little sketchy.ReplyDelete
No need bashing the history channel for getting us all interested enough to battle this indecipherable (and potentially non existent...) "historical fact" battle. The bottom line is that the Sagas, like Greek works earlier, are the first written documentation of these "events," and those involved...at least as far back as Ragnar/Lagertha/Aslaug go, so no one- not this egg head or any other pompous ass who believes his/her guess trumps others - is any more credible than the next...and very few likely know as much as Hurst and his HC crew at this point.ReplyDelete
The difference is that Hurst is in charge of creating a historical DRAMA, that engages and entertains the masses; and rather than spewing his version of preferred "interpretational" BS...as none are as much as "credible" anyway (considering the mixed and centuries late recording of any of these early characters)...he puts the pissing contest aside and does a masterful job of intertwining the tales of many historical events, people, and legends.
No one knows the truth about half of this- even the later, chronicled stuff (we know who...and how...history is recorded, and that's NOW that there's instant feedback to face, which STILL roots out little bias/falsehoods/propaganda...etc). But to learn that these individuals were - for the most part - involved in a sequence of world changing engagements, and even the lesser characters were - again "alleged" - to be influential in their own rights...just not relevant necessarily to this plot line (Halfdane/Horik/Finehair/Rollo/Mercia/Wessex/Gisla/Alfred/Charles/Charlemagne...etc...while also incorporating the unification of Norse homelands and strong handed establishment of themselves in "civilized Europe," thus forever changing the cultural landscape...ETC) ---that's pretty impressive. To make the show the most badass thing on TV...even bigger 'ups! He's adding characters who were significant in this period's cultural evolution...even when he knows they didn't have the same relationship to one another or fall perfectly in date/location-wise...at his own expense, knowing that asses will be quick to slam him (without it adding anything to the show that his pure imagination couldn't outdo...), but his point is to encourage us to do just what we are doing, researching and learning...at least what is available...because these names/places/events have piqued our interest. And since he calls it a drama- I'd say it's about the most justice that any "History" Channel contributor has done---at least since it's become the crypto-conspiracy-realityTV "content dealer" I've become accustomed to.
Get off his nuts...or get on Ragnar's...cuz he'd be happy to put another son in somebody.
People are ognorant, don't let them bother you... my lineage was recently traced back and Ragnar is part of my ancestory too... they had a lot of infidelity back then too so we could all branch off in different ways from him. If people want to waste their time arguing whether or not there's some relation then tell them to "pound tar" and move on.ReplyDelete
Yes this is white history and they do not have african DNA but don't worry some black idiot will say that they came from Africa BS.Everyone did not come "out of africa!"The Vikings would kick some african ass!ReplyDelete
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ragnar lothbrok was real warrior and the real king of Viking series . he was the only one to take a step forward against any enemy.ReplyDelete
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